Debugging and new versions under LINUX

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Debugging and new versions under LINUX

Postby Jeromnimo » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:21 am

Hi everybody,

first of all, thanks a lot for all work done in Newton :)

We (my team and me) are currently developping a professional sotware based on Irrlicht and Newton, and it will be commercialised uder both linux and windows.

Recent changes made are only available for windows (v2.23 on windows vs v2.20 on linux), and I wonder what is the future of Newton under linux, and its use in a professionnal project.

Sources aren't available, so we cannot maintain ourselves version for our applications, how do you plan newton future ? Is there a roadmap or something else somewhere ?

And finally, do you need some help to imporve / debug newton on linux platform (could be a good thing for you and for us if we are invloved in newton project :) )

Thanks in advance for your reply, have a good day.
Jeromnimo
 
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Re: Debugging and new versions under LINUX

Postby Julio Jerez » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:06 am

Everything is under control. I usually take a two or the version to bring Linux and Mac upto date.
This is time has being a litle longer because I am writing the Newton Editor and editor library which will the Assets Content creation, to move from
procedural Physics modeling to What you see is what you get in a visual modeling editor.
Because the editor is still not usable It will be for me a waste of time to start making the Linux and Mac build.

This editor and the Newton SDK is all open source, and anyone can make the conversion, to linux, basicaally all it needs its a linux DLL or Newton Library, teh rest in in the SDK.,
I has asked before but so far no takers to help in the port.

when this editor project is more completed, I willsimplify the window, Linux and Mac to have just a runtime libray and a simpler viewer that load file produced with the editor,
and since the editor is opne source, then I will let the end user do the port to Linux and Mac, or use it in windows and see the file in the linux runtime demo.
that will make the Linux and Mac SDK to be more uptoday with the windows version.

depend on how far I get to s stable point, I will try to make a linux build this weekend.
Julio Jerez
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Re: Debugging and new versions under LINUX

Postby Jeromnimo » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:21 am

First of all, thanks for your reply :)

when you say : "the Newton SDK is all open source", it's right only if you have newton lib precompiled, code source of this one is not available (or I haven't enough informations ^^)

So, in a professionnal context, we have two possibilities :
- we use a version "as is", and we wait a lot before updating to a new version (depending of how many time it takes to be released, if a blocking bug is resolved...)
- we managed code ourselves (that's what we do for Irrlicht for example), we can compile ourselves and submit patch to community in order to share our developments (improvments, memory leaks, bug corrections)

For the moment, we are in the first possibility, but maybe the second will be possible in the future (not dramatic for the moment, our software still not sell).

You're editor sounds very good, maybe we will assume port to linux when you will release it :)

when you say : "I has asked before but so far no takers to help in the port.", we are new users of newton, and I think we weren't here when you say that ^^ If you ask again your question now, we will probably answer yes to help you !
Jeromnimo
 
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Re: Debugging and new versions under LINUX

Postby Julio Jerez » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:55 am

the Newton library is not, all other utilities and demos are, and that includes the editor.
It is the SDK and demos that is hard to compile for Linux and Mac not the Newton lib or DLL.
The editor is already on the download page. You can download here, and see where is at.
http://www.newtondynamics.com/downloads/NewtonWin-2.24.rar
It is still very, early stage but I have big, big plane for it, as it is the way future version of Newton will be presented.
It is a plug-in architecture, that can be extended bu the end user.

For example you can make a Irrlich Viewer, plugin, or and Irrlith export/import plug it, and all kind of special controller for the object you want so that you can design you scene visually in the editor.
This will not be just and edityor, although the first thing we will do is physics scene modeling, but it will also be a Graphis/Animation and All Purpose Game modeler.
You will be able to modeler Scene graphics using Solid Modeling similar to Quake engines but way more powerful since it is not limited to convex brush, Nurbs curves and surfaces, Material and editing editing, Animation by IK and constraints, Mesh feature analyst like Convex decomposition, Fractal decompustion for destrution, and Texture mapping unwrapping, Special modesl like 2d terrain and 3d isosuface modeling
Those are the things I am committed to add to the editor, and the all will be available to any engine that link to the NeSDK library.
Notice that most the stuff Id mention in no thong I will make up in the future many of those functionality are already in NewtonMesh, the problem is that it is such and advanced and exotic feature for a physics engine that most user do understand it and go unnoticed.

I myself tried to make so demos, I do not know if you seen some of eth destruction video I post in the youtuve, but what happen is that the demos get some complex that when it do no use for some time I do no understand it. And that convened me that the way to solve that is to have a Visual way to do modeling,
Another aspect of having a Visual modeling aid is that you do not really have to have an all full prove technology, it is OK to have areas where the technology breaks down, but it is very hard to explain these limit in a procedural demo, because the demo may work, but then where the user try to implement it own version he may go to areas where the engine will breaks and that pass as a Bug.
While a visual modeling aid, it is easy for a user to use the engine were it is effective and if a Mistake is made it just need to undo that mistake and try different variation. Plus if the tool also allow for artistic modeling, then you get the best of all worlds.
I give you and exmple, Irrlitch user alway have a diffult time using th engine because of teh limitaion of Irrlich that only deal with fix units and euler angles.
This is such trivial problem to solve, but for the lager majoiry of Irrlish user it is not.
On the other hand ther are a verty bug gruop of Talented Artist and Programenrs hwo use Irrlich as thier develeopemnet engine, thet can make great scenes and art, but poor Game Logic an p hysics.
So having and editor that exposes a solution for then, now you can solve once and for all the Scale and teh angle tuff for good.

I have high hope for this tool and I like anyone who use it customize it by the use of Plug in. They good thong is that the work you put on it you do no have to shared it, because the plug it protect your invesment.
Julio Jerez
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Re: Debugging and new versions under LINUX

Postby Jeromnimo » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:16 pm

Thanks for this very interesting reply Julio :)
I am currently ending my thesis writing in informatics, and I am both an engineer in a development team, involved in software developement that use Irrlicht first, and newton now :)
We are developing on both windows and linux, and I will be pleased to help you in linux part of newton engin and sdk :)

I am a bit busy for now (due to my thesis), but will be soon available to compile and submit you any things I will judge important for me and my development team :)

As soon as I achieved compilation of your editor on a linux environment (debian), we will maybe discuss about linux port of your work, and maybe packaging into debian :)

Good luck for all you want to do :)
Jeromnimo
 
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