Newton 2.0x Archemedia Open Beta

[Julio Jerez]

It is the same map, same situation, but different newton.dll. The second one is with 2.08
I fell all the way to the bottom (the rock is me). The other spheres that have fallen are lower than me for some reason, maybe 100 units lower than me.
Is there a way to debug this to make sure I am not sending wrong values to Newton? Maybe it can make a log file telling me what is wrong.

Here is a question are you running in a AMD system? I have the feeling that the Fast Math makes the code malfuntion on AMDs.
Maybe on older AMDs, but I am not sure.
The only way for me to know is to have a test that malfuntion in a system so that and see what is wrong.

[JernejL]

Here is a question are you running in a AMD system? I have the feeling that the Fast Math makes the code malfuntion on AMDs.
Maybe on older AMDs, but I am not sure.
The only way for me to know is to have a test that malfuntion in a system so that and see what is wrong.

Maybe this could be the cause - there is a performance counter issue on dual, tri and quad core amd CPUs, you need the amd cpu drivers or you'll get all sort of crazy stuff, such as these counters going in reverse, if you use it to calculate timing you can end up with a lot of chaos.

Check the delta time values you send to newton for a longer period of time, see if they ever go into negative direction. I had to make my game fallback to gettickcount on such systems with a message to suggest people to install the driver.

[armokal]

I have a Core2 Duo, 1.66GHz. I have never tested on Phenom and other AMD CPUs.
Julio
Here is a link to download the project http://67.204.55.28
It will work as long as you have a GL 2.0 capable driver.
All other DLLs are included, including Newton 2.00 and 2.08

[Julio Jerez]

how do I play it? I see a intro screen that say new game, setting , creditr, quit.
The only botton that seem to work is quit

[armokal]

it says in the readme, click on the green box at the top.

[Julio Jerez]

Ok I try tonight

[Marc]

Here is a question are you running in a AMD system? I have the feeling that the Fast Math makes the code malfuntion on AMDs.
Maybe on older AMDs, but I am not sure.
The only way for me to know is to have a test that malfuntion in a system so that and see what is wrong.

Maybe this could be the cause - there is a performance counter issue on dual, tri and quad core amd CPUs, you need the amd cpu drivers or you'll get all sort of crazy stuff, such as these counters going in reverse, if you use it to calculate timing you can end up with a lot of chaos.

Check the delta time values you send to newton for a longer period of time, see if they ever go into negative direction. I had to make my game fallback to gettickcount on such systems with a message to suggest people to install the driver.

Do you have a testcase for the AMD fastmath malfunction?

For the performance counter issue, I've read about it from time to time and I worte a program that - as far as I understood this issue - should test if a system has that counter rewinding problem. However, I never found a system that failed that test - weather AMD or Intel. Do you have access to a system that actually has this issue? I have an AMD 64 X2 3800+ and it doesn't seem to have this issue. I'm not sure if cpu drivers are installed - at least I didn't do it but maybe they were installed by fujitsu siemens? Is there a way to see if they are installed?

[Julio Jerez]

I have a Core2 Duo, 1.66GHz. I have never tested on Phenom and other AMD CPUs.
Julio
Here is a link to download the project http://67.204.55.28
It will work as long as you have a GL 2.0 capable driver.
All other DLLs are included, including Newton 2.00 and 2.08

Ok I loaded the map and I see a bolder, few sheres and a box.
I can move around the bolder wit the keys, and I can kick the other objects.
when I hit the Box it goes up into the air, when I hit the other balls they just move.

what is the problem? and how I can reproduce it.

[JernejL]

For the performance counter issue, I've read about it from time to time and I worte a program that - as far as I understood this issue - should test if a system has that counter rewinding problem. However, I never found a system that failed that test - weather AMD or Intel. Do you have access to a system that actually has this issue? I have an AMD 64 X2 3800+ and it doesn't seem to have this issue. I'm not sure if cpu drivers are installed - at least I didn't do it but maybe they were installed by fujitsu siemens? Is there a way to see if they are installed?

My current pc (athlon 64 x2 4400) can do this very reliably, as long as the amd cpu drivers arent running, and i install XPSP1 (i since moved to XPSP3 and the drivers to solve timing issues).

It doesn't happen right after reboot - for a long time the cpu timers run properly, but if i run a few various games or videos, the timer will start to go crazy and stay like that until a reboot, it caused strange stuttering movement problems in crysis, and some games moved things at super fast speed (like the old star trek bridge commander), believe me this is a real problem, if this happens, detecting backwards values in performance counters and a fallback timer (gettickcount) with a messagebox telling user what to do, is a good way to solve it (unless you really need a highier precision timer).

[Dave Gravel]

Personally I have already get similar issue without SP or with SP3 and I don't think that just come from the cpu.
I think some programmer's make a bad use of the timer precision and don't reset it correctly when the application close.
This generate some sort of strange behaving like leaking, i'm sure some programmer's don't reset it correctly or don't reset it at all or the application don't close normally and it cause similar problem.
I don't have get this problem for a longtimes now but currently I don't test so much application like before.
My computer is 24 on 24 open and I run some 3d stuff but all time the same and I don't get the problem currently.

[Marc]

Personally I have already get similar issue without SP or with SP3 and I don't think that just come from the cpu.
I think some programmer's make a bad use of the timer precision and don't reset it correctly when the application close.
This generate some sort of strange behaving like leaking, i'm sure some programmer's don't reset it correctly or don't reset it at all or the application don't close normally and it cause similar problem.
I don't have get this problem for a longtimes now but currently I don't test so much application like before.
My computer is 24 on 24 open and I run some 3d stuff but all time the same and I don't get the problem currently.

What timer are you refering to? The one refered to can't be reset or anything like that. QueryPerformanceCounter() and QueryPerformanceFrequency() - that's all. This is a link to the issue on msdn http://support.microsoft.com/kb/274323/en-us. Maybe you mean timeBeginPeriod() ?

[Dave Gravel]

It's my fault i'm bad to explain stuff in english.
I say reset but it's surely not the good word for this.

Yes I talk about the QueryPerformanceCounter & QueryPerformanceFrequency, and some users don't initialize it correctly.
Or some user don't use it correctly for retrive FPS speed information from the scene process.
I know it have bug and problem, it's not totally the programmer fault like me and you but it's important for any timer to make sure that is reseted right.
Sometimes the problem is from hardware and driver, but normally the user can do it by self just to make sure.

I don't talk about timeBeginPeriod but yes this one need to come reseted at the end.

I talk about something like this.
http://www.mindcontrol.org/~hplus/misc/ ... timer.html

[winstrol]

Hi Dave,

I hope you can help me, because it seems, you are designer of DG... functions. Can u tell me please, how can I implement putting torqe to the wheels and changing pitch angle of wheels using that functions:

Code: Select all

-(struct iNewtonUserJoint*) DGRaycastVehicleCreate
-(void) DGRaycastVehicleAddTirefriction
-(void) DGRaycastVehicleSetTireTransformCallback
-(int) DGRaycastVehicleGetTiresCount
-(void*) DGRaycastVehicleGetTiresUserData
-(void) DGRaycastVehicleGetTireMatrix

Thank you very much in advance

[Marc]

I talk about something like this.
http://www.mindcontrol.org/~hplus/misc/ ... timer.html

You can't mess up other processes usage of QueryPerformanceCounter() with that class - no matter which method you call on that class.

[Julio Jerez]

Hi Dave,
I hope you can help me, because it seems, you are designer of DG... functions. Can u tell me please, how can I implement putting torqe to the wheels and changing pitch angle of wheels using that functions:

I say before, fold on that I will come back to the car, I can not help people now because I am working on something that will make me lose my focus, as soon as I put out the new Beta I will resume the car tutorial and you will have the rest of the funtionality you need.